The return of the bride of bad sketch

[shadesofmauve]

Okay! After having a wide-variety of things pointed out to me, and spending an hour last night with my tired-but-mostly-biddable sweetheart, I've some different options for how to have the guy sit.


notice: because of changes in the guy, lady's torso/arm is no longer quite right. I'll fix that *after* I have him down, since he's being way more problematic. Ditto for his left arm. I did work on her foot/leg and move the arm she's leaning on backwards (after E and I both tried it as it was and pronounced it awkward).

Also, the unfortunate tighty-whitey look is just an artifact of me trying to figure out exact hip angles.



Preferences? Which one looks more natural, comfortable, cute... ?


Working this out with Erik last night was a wonderfull lesson in how Different Bodies are Different.

I know, I know, you'd think I'd have figured that out already -- after all, it didn't take me that long to figure out that most people have legs of roughly the same length and ten toes -- but it's worth a reminder, especially when it comes to odd things we don't normally notice, like hip rotation. If E sits with his legs out in front of him, his toes want to turn out. Mine are happy pointing up (I tried to ask about this with regard to knees, but he was exhausted and not really understanding and started to seriously over-splain something about guys and scrotal pressure, which was, er, not what I was asking about at all).

Comments

[shadesofmauve]

And, um, you won't have to shift her right arm if she's about to fall over backwards, dragging him with her.

Well, that can be fun, too... :P

It was less a discussion than me trying to convince him to stop explaining, which can be a little hard when he's that tired. There's this kind of Erik-verbal-inertia where he can't say anything at all, and then the ball finally gets rolling and dammit, he's going to get the whole thing out.

So, I was really looking at hip rotation when your legs are spraddled (him versus me), and he thought I was talking about, er, degree-of-spraddlage, and that I needed to know why most dudes prefered a larger spraddle angle (which, y'know, I'd kinda figured...) -- and then it devolved still further into how unlike most men he didn't mind crossing his legs... before I managed to derail the conversation. Or perhaps re-rail.

[stasia]

Okay!

I have LOTS of comment, from Geordie, my guy.

First, he says that the way the guy's sitting in the third image makes him look like he's about to try to get away. Like he's braced on both arms and has cocked his knee so he can shove up onto it and leave. Which I thought was interesting - none of us saw that, but a guy saw it immediately.

And. When I read the thing about scrotal pressure and spraddlage and leg-crossing, he said that there's no man who can cross his legs the way a woman can. Because, you know, her legs are mounted further apart, they get a better approach angle on the knee.

And then I cracked up and started typing to you.

So there you go.

Stasia

[shadesofmauve]

Ah, okay! I've adressed the first point in the new version of three (can't post it 'till Monday; file's at work). Erik actually saw a similar thing, but ONLY when he was looking at the two versions compared, which was interesting. I think drawing in his arm (crossed across the bent knee) will also help with relaxation.

I like the usage of 'approach angle' there. Nice. But did he mention scrotal pressure? *g*

And now I'm really curious (in a totally moving-beyond-the-drawing way). When I sit with my legs splayed my toes point up. When E does it, his toes point out. (note: there is no groin constriction in either stance; scrotal pressure is not relevant!). Which way do your toes go? I'm thinking it may have something to do w/ hip placement and rotation, and I wonder if there's a sex-based tendency (caused by narrower/wider hips), or if it's more of an individual variation.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

I just got down on the floor and tried sitting like that. My feet were definitely more comfortable splayed out, but it felt like it mostly had to do with the position of my knees (they were a little too extended with my toes up) and the shape of the muscles on the back of my calves (The point of greatest curvature is the contact with the floor when my toes are up, and there's a flatter area off to the outside, so they tend to roll out).

[shadesofmauve]

(I am so lucky to have dear friends to perform these silly experiments for me. *hugs*)

It may be that my right leg at least is more comfy toes-up because I lack calf-definition. On the left I have a lot of definition, but the Kellington-calves also tend to be very round -- I'm going to hit a high curvature point whether I keep my leg straight or not.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

*hugback* Always glad to help!

[stasia]

Okay. I just sat down and looked at my feetsies and then Geordie saw me and laughed and said, "You're talking to your friend again, aren't you?" and waited until I stood up and sat down himself to look at his own feets.

So.

My toes point outward, just a bit. Less than 45 degrees from vertical, but enough to be tilted. I have big calves (especially for my height - I'm 4'9" with 14" calves.) so that's a large part of it, I think.

Geordie's toes also pointed out, a bit more than mine - maybe almost 45 degrees. He's got more calf definition than I! He shifted around a bit and says that he thinks this is more to do with calf size than anything else.

I'd say this is more individual variation and calf size than anything sex-linked.

*grin*

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

First, he says that the way the guy's sitting in the third image makes him look like he's about to try to get away. Like he's braced on both arms and has cocked his knee so he can shove up onto it and leave. Which I thought was interesting - none of us saw that, but a guy saw it immediately.

Misleading Default Icon aside, I'm actually a guy, and I don't really see that in there. His center of gravity looks too far back from where his hands are for a good push off

[shadesofmauve]

You and your misleading default icons!

(I'd honestly forgot about your current icon, and just assumed Stasia was making a wild-guess).

As usual, I'm more inclined to chalk it up to "people see things differently" than "men/women see things differently."

Heck. In the first version mom thought the guy might be unconscious, and Dad said, "No, I think he's enjoying himself." :P

[westrider.livejournal.com]

It was a joke, but I did realize recently that since I added in all those Buffy Icons, I've been using way more icons with pictures of women in them than anything else.

And yeah, I generally attribute stuff like that to personal differences rather than gender differences as well. But I think we've discussed that before.

[shadesofmauve]

You made me interested, so I just counted. I have 5 male pics in my icons to 4 female ones (or 6 and 5, if we count Monkey and Calliope). Two of the female images are in the same icon, so there are really only 3 female icons...

That settles it. I'm bob-the-builder. :P

(and yes, you and I've discussed that before, but I like to make it abundantly clear for anyone else in or interested in the comments).

[westrider.livejournal.com]

I'm at 20 Male to 16 Female Icons (some of those have both, I filed them under whichever seemed the "protagonist" of the image), not counting those without a human in them.

But I've been using the Female ones a whole lot more lately, so the raw numbers don't really convey the whole story.

And yes, overcommunication is usually better than undercommunication. Though I have an Icon that I haven't uploaded yet of Willow saying "I'm over-helping again aren't I?" ;)

[shadesofmauve]

LOL -- that one seems like it'd be really handy for a lot of us nerd types. We've all been guilty of over-splaining at one point or another. :)

[stasia]

Hmmmm. I have 45 icons. I just counted: 11 are certainly with girls (I'm including Boo, Ariel, and my own eye - I figure it's my eye and I'm a girl, so it's a 'female' icon.) I have 3 with females in (they share space with a male), there are 2 with non-human females, 7 with non-human males, 1 male-only (I do love a good Kronk icon), 20 which are text/non-human image/text+non-human image

... which means one's missing. Hmmm.

Ah. And one that's non-human male with a non-human female.

My icons are confused!

Clearly I need more icons!

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Clearly I need more icons!

That's precisely the conclusion I came to as well!

[stasia]

Iconz!!!

I want to learn how to make moving icons.

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I know how, but none of the programs I have on my Computer can make animated .gifs. At some point, I need to rectify this, as there are some animated Icons I really want to make.

[shadesofmauve]

I know how to make basic ones in photoshop. E-mail me and I can splainz for you!

I don't know how to make the video-capture type, though. :(

[stasia]

*blink*

I hadn't even looked at your icon, honestly. I tend to assume that they are more 'people/things the poster likes' than an absolute gender/sex marker. (I don't have long green hair with butterflies in, no matter how much I'd like to be a Happy Plant Fairy. *grin*)

As for the position in the drawing, I was more interested in the fact that he'd seen something completely different than everyone else seemed to. I can see it either way, honestly.

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Like I said in another comment here, that was more than half a joke.

Your phrasing did imply, however, that none of the commenters so far were guys.

No worries, regardless.

[stasia]

Heh. *deep blush*

In this case, my misapprehension of sex was based more on the standard "LJ users are female" fallacy.

I heartily apologise.

And now I'm deep into reading the Evil Lesbians Trope you linked to. I'll have interesting reading for days, thanks!!

*grin*

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Apology unnecessary. On the Internet, no one knows who you are, man, woman, dog, cat, whatever. It's part of the attraction. ;)

And I'm very glad to hear you got something interesting out of what I've written/linked to. That's pretty much the point.

[stasia]

... omg, you're a catfish?!

Stasia

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Not fish! NOT FISH! Just Cat :)

[stasia]

*snorkle*

Fish are friends, not food.

Stasia